DaMON SAYS:
It's very counter productive.
RJ SAYS:
Are you sure that this is the best way to counter Aaron?
Anonymous: [probably Aaron Stene] It doesn't get much more asinine than this!
Kai: I have got to agree and that is some of your best commentary yet!
First of all you have supported Aaron Stene's unfounded attacks on me. I find it interesting it does not bother you the tactics he uses. I put this blog together a while back when Aaron was making claims about me and then not posting my answers. Including claiming I wasn't answering him. So I posted them on Ma'oli world and I let him post without edit!
What did you do then? Did you say Come on Aaron. if you go after someone you should give them a chance to answer? No,You attacked me for posting the forum on Ma'oli world! Damon attacked me for posting "Aaron Stene declares war on the sovereignty movement" OK that was a little harsh but I backed up what I said with this quote.
Aaron- In a way I do oppose the Hawaiian sovereignty movement. I don’t think its right to forcibly try to to reverse the clock
back to before 1893. As you are aware a lot has changed here, for better and worse, over the last century. In other words its
too late to change things back.On that note, I would fight any attempt to return the monarchy.
That's pretty harsh too and he has to take his cracks if he's going to make public statements like that. perhaps you guys can not see the full measure of colonialism and hate that lies in that statement. It is not even the fighting words, but the "Reverse the Clock" because that is filled with the propagandist thinking of American oppression. I don't care where Aaron Stene was born [He claims to be a Kama'aina] he's an American and he is trashing my country! Nobody asked his opinion!
Does he have a right to his opinion? Sure he can do whatever he likes. But why does anyone in the world know about this blog? Because in an effort to provoke me Aaron Stene posted "Kai Landow strikes again" and put a link to this blog which has sat fallow until and unless he starts this stupidity again!
Do you have any criticism for Aaron coming into a Charlie Foster's blog in which an intelligent discourse was going on. We didn't agree but there was a polite thoughtful back and forth. I do not know which of you is "ManaWai" but you know who you are. His post where there to disrupt and if I wanted to continue to argue Conklin's revisionist history then I would have continued to blog with him.
At the core of this is an interesting problem. Bullying people on blogs is an effective way in ending debate. I was happy to answer you guys and I answered RJ. I think RJ and I can reach an understanding, though I continue to be disappointed that he doesn't repudiate the tactics of Aaron Stene.
I do publicly apologise for anyone in my government who opposes the right of Gays and Lesbians and I personally fully support their equal rights and right to marriage.
So what is your motivation? I can only think Ululani is right and you seek ratings, because it is a hit and run style [not RJ]. So what is fair for me to do in response?
I still wait for you to address these issues. why do you avoid answering this point? I would point out that I wasn't attacking Aaron in this blog [just posting it] and what is the injury here. Do you think he might suffer if people have a chance to answer his pontificating?
OK you can criticise me, can you create solutions? I doubt it. So what Damon is productive? But I will in your absence of your positive suggestions.
I will cease this Blog when you simply agree to at least post all replies by the people you go after, simple Yes?
Fair? Yes!
Kai Landow
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Kai,
ReplyDeleteI want to take up this opportunity to clear the air. For starters, I never posted any comments on Charley Foster's blog (or anywhere else- except Maoli World).
On top of that,lets remember who started this- it was you Kai. You were the one who started this because you were unhappy how I handled your comments on my blog.
I could see that you were going to refuse to listen to my point of view. Thus I decided to end the conversation because neither of us
was going to win.
"On top of that,lets remember who started this- it was you Kai. You were the one who started this because you were unhappy how I handled your comments on my blog.
ReplyDeleteI could see that you were going to refuse to listen to my point of view. Thus I decided to end the conversation because neither of us
was going to win."
well yet again you dont post my reply's [previous posting] and yet again you don't answer that you are willing to publish replies of people you attack! I think you didn't publish my response because you would have looked stupid.
That said; you get it wrong I will listen to you point and I am happy to answer them and I would start new with you anytime. But you can not use these tactics of hit and run. I find real fault with your conclusions and you make statements about my position that are not based in anything I have said.
As I told you I have written to people you have used to refute my positions and they do not disagree with my point, I have not published them for two reasons 1) i haven't gotten permission from them and 2) this kind of discussion and tactics may only serve to draw them into the same stupidity.
I do not understand what you wish to accomplish? As you know I haven't responded to you for a while to you and left you to your own devices. So who started this then. does it matter?
Look be a man, do the right thing let people answer you blog. I am not telling you to let any nasty or inappropriate blogs on. I am telling you that you have no moral right to attack me and not let me answer your charges period and I will continue to do what I think is fair if you continue to play dirty.
Anytime you wish to go back to a civil process of discourse I am in with you. I don't hate you or am I "blindsided" with hate. I wish you would take a minute and see our position. I hope you would understand what oppression we face and how we only seek a positive outcome for Hawaiians and Americans.
where you get that other stuff God only knows?
Kai Landow
Kai,
ReplyDeleteI wonder where you get off accusing me of posting on Charley Foster's blog and elsewhere
in response to your diatribe's
That being said, it seems you and others on Maoli World are indeed full of hate. This concerns me greatly if the monarchy is restored. I don't think me and other local haoles Who have lived here their entire lives
with get a fair shake. In other words, I think we'll lose a lot of our rights currently afforded us under the US Constitution.
Lastly as far as the USSC ruling, I would encourage you to read Robert Thomas's blog
about his thoughts about the decision.
http://www.inversecondemnation.com/
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?b9e6f480-d58a-4dec-8c4d-24429e98dce6
In other words, I don't believe that he said your position has merit. After all he was involved in filing the amicus brief in support of the State's position.
I know Robert Thomas worked on the amicus and we had a good discussion about it, so whats your point! But I tire of this.
ReplyDeleteYou still do not answer my question. I find it interesting that none of you guys will even touch it, why?
I let you rant and you don't let me post my comments, what are you afraid of?
Do you know what a fair shake is?
and finally what exactly do you say gives ground to your comments of losing rights?
Your not a subject of the Kingdom and are unfamiliar with our laws, how would our rights effect yours?
No where has anyone I've seen said anything from the Hawaiian Kingdom to back up your statements.
PS I accurately said: Aaron Stene or one of his friends posted on Charley Foster. So if I am wrong let it at least be correctly wrong.
Kai,
ReplyDeleteI just read these comments after my blog post. I enjoy communicating with you, and respect you and your ideas a good deal, but I am going to have to agree with Aaron on something.
There is a lot of anger and hatred towards caucasian people on some Maoliworld forums, which I believe is not fair. If certain race/ethnic groups are going to be targeted, then the Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, Portuguese and Puerto Ricans should be targeted as well. The Japanese descendants of the planatation workers hold strong pull in Hawaii and can be thought to control Hilo as well. Several people were very nasty in their attacks against Aaron, calling him racist names and even worse- assuming that he is a racist- which I don't believe is the case at all.
Just because someone is opposed to the Sovereignty movement doesn't necessarily make them a racist. I oppose a full restoration to the kingdom, and I am part Hawaiian. Does that make a racist or a traitor? According to some, it does.
I have never called Aaron a racist. Though I did call him a jerk and when I looked up the definition I thought is was spot on. I did call you a racist though and I fully retract again here.
ReplyDeleteYes, there is anger and I do not support racism from either side and it is no way to make a legitimate government.
But here's the thing, when you phrase:
"Just because someone is opposed to the Sovereignty movement doesn't necessarily make them a racist."
You are quite correct! but is there something else going on with his comments? You can talk in code and you can be insensitive to a point that crosses the line.
It's not just that he says he will fight the restoration of the Monarchy, its his colonialist views and his portraying of old myths as fact.
for instance you could say the Indians made a mess of India and the British Raj was the only good governance they ever had. They are incapable of self governance.
Is that opinion or is that not racist.
It has been said by others.
Aaron Stene comes from the dominate culture with privileges Hawaiians don't get. He buys land his title is good in court. Hawaiians come with their Royal Patents don't do so well. But Dole and Thurstons Patents were honored.
So in the end How do we address this anger and racism?
call on me anytime to respond to any comments out of line.
Kai Landow demagogue
Kai,
ReplyDeleteYour posts are like a echo chamber. You are simply rehashing the same stuff over and over again. This at least some of the reason why I did what I did.
As far as losing my rights, case in point you stated I'm not a subject of the Kingdom. However if the Kingdom gets restored what is going to happen to us Haoles that have lived here their entire life. If I lose any rights whatsoever that I currently have afforded to me under the US Constitution I will certainly fight any attempt to return Hawaii to a monarchy.
As far as the comments on Charley Fosters blog
your assertion is still incorrect. I never posted those comments or asked anyone to do so.
In regards to the comment I come from privileged society I think not.My life doesn't come on the silver platter. I have had work to earn everything I've gotten.
ReplyDelete"Your posts are like a echo chamber"
ReplyDeleteIf it sound familiar it is because you never address these issues. You can run from them that does not settle them.
"As far as losing my rights"
I doubt very much you are ever going to be subject to HKG. since you have to be a subject to be under its jurisdiction. You can stay in America the rest of your life! No worries go to sleep at night safe in the knowledge no Kingdom people will come for you.
what will happen to two Nation in the same land? This a process that will benefit both countries and the rights of both for the first time will be respected. See underneath your statements suggest you want a continuation of Hawaiian Kingdom Nationals oppression and violation of their civil and political rights [as per the High commission of the UN findings 2006]
that is why Kanakas respond with such vitriol. The status quo is a violation of our rights.
CF blog:How do we find out who Manawai is then? we will never know.
"In regards to the comment I come from privileged society"
Now that is a neat twist of words! I said you come from the dominant culture [which you do] and have privileges not afforded Hawaiians [also you do]. See this are the same words used with different meanings.
Seriously, sincerely, do you have issues with reading comprehension. It has come up before and I know this sounds like an attack, but I say things and what comes back from you is a different color than I put out?
I believe I have addressed you comments [probably not to your satisfaction] Now it is time for you to address my question.
Are you going to allow postings from the people you attack?
aloha Kai
Kai,
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if you are having a problem with reading comprehension. As you are spinning things I'm saying into something totally different.
Firstly lets say Hawaii becomes of Kingdom again. What is going to happen to all the American citizen's living here ? Are their US Constitutional rights going to be protected ? Is the their land claims going to
be protected also ?
As far as letting comments from people who I supposedly on my blog. I'll tell you straight I'm not going to posting your comments.
OK then I suggest you go back to your blog forget about me and I will ignore you and have a nice life. the better for both of us!
ReplyDeleteThe Kingdom is not going to effect you! so sleep soundly my son.
pleasant dreams
Kai
Just so you know, the Anonymous comment was not Aaron Stone but me. As I am not a blogger, I have no profile but am appalled at the idiotic behavior...this is like a 3 year old!
ReplyDeleteWho is ck? I don't know what you are talking about? you got the wrong blog, don't mind us 3 year olds we just having a bad day.
ReplyDeleteappalling Kai